"I feel like we are all soul family. And the people that might hurt us the most are probably the closest to us. And they take on that, I'll do this so that you can move through this exploration of what unconditional love feels like."
This episode is filled with wisdom, insights, love, compassion and a kind of humanization of our experience on the planet.
This is one of my favourite manifestation & spirituality conversations in a long time and I know you will love it too!!
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:47 Understanding Manifestation and Oneness
Has manifestation become one of the forefronts of, what it is that you do and stand for?...
02:12 The Journey of Spiritual Awakening
So was this inner work and a healing journey, was that a big part of your journey to get here?...
03:39 The Power of Manifestation in Relationships and Business
And that's what I'm naturally good at doing is explaining the energetics of something, of how something should really feel in manifestation, whether it's in relationship or something to do with business....
09:49 The Role of Inner Work in Manifestation
There are these sort of....
13:22 Exploring Past Experiences and Their Impact on Spirituality
It's about your body and how Stable and centered....
14:22 The Evolution of Consciousness and Manifestation
I can't even keep track of all of the things because there's so many things that I. set the intention for, hold space for, and they just come flying in, there's a position that I wanted to fill in my business....
19:32 The Art of Listening and Its Role in Manifestation
And this conversation is so wild because I just taught a manifestation program and really, it was very much mine....
19:56 Understanding Relationship Dynamics and Attachment Styles
I was also exposed to spirituality when I was younger that I was just no, that's not for me or even, and I've become really interested in chakras and energy centers, but I resisted it for a long time because I was taught that, in this yogic way, that was just, it was just very resistant to it....
22:00 The Power of Synchronicity in Manifestation
25:05 Practical Application of Manifestation Principles
I can suddenly see where I'm much more in that human form of blaming someone or feeling, whatever I'm feeling....
27:42 The Role of Compassion in Relationships
Even though there was this other stuff going on....
30:11 Understanding the Energetics of Relationships
And of course, vulnerability is such a huge part of connection....
33:23 The Power of Attunement in Manifestation
You can find Jess in the following Places!
Her incredible writings:
Connect With Michael:
All right, welcome back to the Michael Edwards show. Today I am here with our extraordinary guest, jess Benton. To me, jess is just a queen of manifestation, of new generation leadership. I met her through her gorgeous partner in crime, chris. I feel like in the time we've known each other, even just having conversations with you has expanded me so much. I feel like there are these little gems of wisdom on your social media that I sometimes find myself watching alive. That you did will contain this piece of genius. I know we were laughing before we started in this whole thing of I don't know what to call myself. I often find myself in that as well. Do you feel like? Has manifestation become one of the forefronts of what it is that you do and stand for?Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's basically everything that I'm teaching sort of centers around manifestation, but ultimately there's one goal, which is to move into oneness and move into love, and that's a difficult thing to kind of title on to. So it's the manifestation piece is the easiest thing for people to understand, but ultimately it's what I'm doing is really helping people collapse duality and come into a sense of unconscious awareness. That's where the manifestation is happening, and so I have a very specific way of manifesting and it really crosses the realm of business and relationships and all of these things. That's what I tend to help people with across the spectrum of things that they want to manifest, but ultimately it's bringing people into a space of love. Essentially spreading love consciousness across the planet is what I do and it's really not a label for that.Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's so good. I remember one time, when we were speaking before, you said something to me about because I've done so much inner work. There's that allowingness to receive, and I really think that allowing to receive is related to what you're talking about being able to be in that state of love and unity, consciousness. So was this inner work and a healing journey? Was that a big part of your journey to get here?Speaker 2:
Yeah, it was all about that. Anything that I'm teaching is most often coming from within. It's coming from epiphanies that I've received myself rather than something I've learned along the way from a book or something. So I do a lot of reading, but the things that I share and really embody have come through epiphanies which have come through the dark nights of the soul. When I first went into spiritual awakening, I basically left my corporate job, I left my 22 year marriage, I started a business, I really had a daughter and a dog and I sold my property and bought, went to live somewhere else. So it was a lot at once and to handle the spiritual awakening, because I just wasn't spiritual before that. And it was a spin like a number of years moving in and out of the dark night of the soul, and what I realized is that it's an amazing thing to go through that specific thing of the dark night of the soul, because that's what all the good stuff is, and so I'm so blessed to have experienced that, because within that were the epiphanies, were these truths of the universe. They didn't come from somebody else, they came very directly through me and so I could really seal the energy of them, the energetics as well. And that's what I'm naturally good at doing, is explaining the energetics of something, of how something should really seal in manifestation, whether it's in relationship, something to do with business, and so I really welcome those moments when that things do collapse into the dark night of the soul and I know that it's like, oh my God, there's going to be some treasure in here, because that's where the beauty is, it's where the creativity is, it's in that space and we see artists, creatives, all the time is that they're going in and out of that space. And as long as you are not scared of it and you know that it's temporary, that it's fine, you just go in, retrieve what you want to retrieve and you come out and you really have shifted and you've moved along through that hero's journey. And when I look back on what has happened during spiritual awakening, it's been so much fun, even the downs and the ups, because it's a bit of a roller coaster. It certainly is. Yeah, it's so heavy. I've been trying to think you have a spiritual awakening.Speaker 1:
Also those ups and downs, and I think we I think as we shift internally, our whole world shifts in response. So when I started this journey without really knowing where I was going, there were people that fell away. That I expected. But I think as I have continued to grow and evolve, I've just become a match for different things, and so new people have come in and people that I thought would be with me for longer have just fallen away, and I think that's been something interesting to navigate recently. But I want to go back to something that you said, because it's so hard for me to imagine you as not spiritual. But as I say that, I guess I wasn't that spiritual and I think it was intuitively spiritual. But I really pushed that away, I think for a lot of my adult life. So can you talk about that? I know you used to. There was a time where you worked at a law firm. Is that right?Speaker 2:
What happened was I was born into a very spiritual family. It's like there's two hippie parents who does a lot of NSD and African planes, or just like out in the middle of nowhere. They'd be like under the stars. And I still, and my whole childhood was spent in ashrams and I did a lot of alms there's just alms all the time sitting in a lot of swamis' knees and listening. I had to listen to all of the lectures from a young age and I was doing a lot of yoga and it was a very alternative in a time when there was no alternative and so it was. I didn't enjoy it because I was so different to all of the other children and I just wanted to fit in, and so I really had a backlash against it and I just wanted nothing to do with it. And so I then went into being a dancer, a ballet dancer. That was the stage of really following what my heart wanted. And then suddenly there was the constriction came in of oh no, I won't be able to get a mortgage. This isn't a secure job. I'm going to have to do something that gives me the security. And then I went into that corporate space and that really shut me down so much Like I just lost. It was such heavy programming of you. You'll be told what your value is. You can't really earn much more than you're earning now type thing, unless you go and do something different. It's so much fair in that I just got to point within spiritual awakening. Now that I look back on it, I sense it was coming through a while and I did start to really feel these bliss stay, so take my dog to the park, and I just feel so in bliss. And that must have been the start of the spiritual awakening. But I hadn't realized. And then I just started getting the sense of I just had to leave a job and I had to leave marriage and I just had to, and I didn't know why. I just knew that I had to do it. And as soon as I did that, the spiritual awakening really started. And from that point that really I came back to normal again. Oh my God, you can really choose what you want to do in this life, that you should be following your heart. You can't earn as much money as you want. And suddenly all the restrictions were lifted. And of course a lot of people get into manifestation during the spiritual awakening and so I really got into it and, of course, because I was so obsessed with it, I just started teaching it and that's where that business started to fall and I've never really left it. Ultimately, we move through the spiritual awakening in different stages, same as manifestation. So what happens in manifestation is we start more in the very in all the traction type way and as consciousness expands, that stops working, from what I've seen, and we start having to manifest in a very different way, much more from a place of wholeness, we start to see that there might be tower moments. Things collapse when we're not in alignment. So I believe that the higher into consciousness or more expanded in consciousness we are, the more in alignment we're forced to be, and so, therefore, more doors start shutting, and you would think would be the opposite. You'd think, oh, all the doors are going to open, but you sort of only have one route through, which is pure alignment, and if you're not in that pure alignment, the doors just close. So you're in something that takes a certain level of navigation. So when people are playing around with expanding consciousness, there's these other things that are going on that you've got to be aware of, that are very different from the early stages of manifestation, and so that's what I've been finding that it's a very different shift as consciousness expands.Speaker 1:
Wow, I have experienced everything that you just said, but you just articulated it the shift from law of attraction, kind of Abrahamic way of manifesting, to this real wholeness and frequency. And it's interesting because I don't know if this is something that you find as well but as I become more whole and I allow myself to integrate more parts of myself, particularly shadow parts, there are these sort of it's almost like there's a wrench thrown in the works because you were reintegrating something that was once disharmonious, let's say. And I find that as you continue to do the work, you become this more refined whole. But it's almost like, as you reintegrate some of these bits and become more whole, there can be some real turmoil, some real crunchy stuff that gets brought in. Is that kind of what you find as well?Speaker 2:
Yeah, completely. It's just it's a lot to navigate and so it's getting used to going through the portal of the discomfort. What I'm really playing around with the moment, as myself and as science and whatever I'm working with, is really to hold a space. So essentially, what's happening is we're reacting to everything. So the energy around the world and with people around us is constantly shifting and we're being pulled and pushed around and if we don't have a really strong core centre, emotional centre, we then react by either being triggered or avoiding. All sorts of different stuff comes up and we're basically like a puppet, just being pulled and pushed, and you can think of it more like a sort of being in a tornado. You have this sort of chaos around where you've got the sort of cows and think of the wizard boss You've got the cows and the hails just floating around and being in the sort of the storm part, and that's life. That's where most people are and in the centre of it, in the eye of the storm, is very quiet and peaceful and silent, but it's just silent and so when you can come into that, no matter what, because there's always going to be chaos, there's always going to be challenges and the trick is to really hold that stable centre. And so when there's something that you want whether it's in business or relationship and it's something that it feels like if you don't have it you're going to really suffer, then we can often not be able to hold that space, but if we can hold it and really stay strong, it's that space for all the manifestation. Ultimately it's the present moment. So if we go a little bit deeper, what happens here is when we're trying to avoid the present moment is we get into the addictions and the distractions, and we're doing it at a very unconscious level because there's a sense of tension within us. And so when that sort of activates, somehow we might reach for a snack or social media or get irritated by a pull-up or something like that, and we don't really realise it's happening and we're just reacting to life. But it's that lack of silence and stillness within that's stuck in the absence. And so if we can just really start to observe where we are reacting, where we are going into some form of addiction maybe it's a drink, because let's say it's snack, or overeating, or social media or whatever it is, or TV, anything that's distracting and takes our mind off the discomfort is taking us away from the present moment and therefore taking us away from the manifestation. And so we start to see that as we come into that very, that stable, calm, peaceful centre where we feel the silence within, everything can be manifested, then just manifested so many amazing things, and actually it's very easy to manifest when we can just get into it. So for me, it's not really about vision boards and affirmations. It's about your body and how stable and centred you can be, no matter what's going on. And it's actually around when we actually are trying to manifest something like if I don't get this, I can't pay that and this is all going to be like my night's going to be awful. Whatever it is that comes up, it's just the illusion, it's not true, and I think this is where also you're going to be is that it's now we're moving into this place of wholeness where the divine is just moving through you and you've got to trust. You've got to trust that everything is unfolding perfectly and just hold, no matter what happens, just hold that space and let the divine move through you and everything just starts to unfold that let's say, miraculous levels at speed.Speaker 1:
Miraculous, miraculous, and I don't know if you find this as well. When I have these conversations with people, sometimes they're trying to manifest this one thing, whereas to me I often feel like manifestation is almost like a state of being. I can't even keep track of all of the things, because there's so many things that I set the intention for or hold space for, and they just come flying in. There's a position that I wanted to fill in my business and I literally just decided this. One morning, ironically, after teaching a manifestation class, and someone sent me a message, who was great, who was like hey, I'm wondering if you'd be interested in having me in this position in your business. Let me tell you a little bit about myself. And wrote me this thing, and it just that leg time is nothing. Sometimes it's wild how these things happen, and it's so interesting what you're saying too about the body, because I mean, I speak about it in such different language but say the same thing. And I almost say to people sometimes like this is the good part. I think there's so much information about the let's call it, the earlier stages of your healing journey or your spiritual path, whatever, and then I feel like this is the fun part. It's now that we've dealt with all this trauma that was in our nervous system, now that we've understood our path, now that we've built a relationship between ourselves and our unconscious. Now is the fun part, like now is the part where I'm no longer at the mercy of my circumstance to how I feel, but instead I get this real intentionality of the feeling, the emotion, the vibrational state that I'm going to hold in my body, and I get to watch the world respond.Speaker 2:
Loretta, you described it so well that it's just you're in that state of being, in that vibrational alignment. You can feel it. You can feel that for me, I feel the world very synchronistically, like I just I know when I'm in a good space is that everything is so synchronistic, and wherever you go, it's just if you get to the sort of space or this level stage where the synchronicity, you can be assured that everything that you're seeing is a message for you at some level, and so then you start to open that awareness of what everything you're noticing in your environment, even this conversation. There's something in this conversation that's important for some manifestation, every single thing as its place. And now we move into this place where it's not this chaos, it's harmonic, and it's absolutely incredible to observe that synchronicity where things like just popping up in very magically, and so it's for me, the way I feel it in my own energy is it's like a symphony, and so these other levels of consciousness, we enter a different reality, and that reality is, it's very harmonic, like that, it's manifestations, a lot to do with sound, and so we start to, we start to hear and sense things much more subtly, and it's at this level where everything feels lucky, it feels like it just flows. Of course there's challenges and stuff and things go wrong, but overall it's got this sense of a beautiful symphony playing and you're the orchestra, you're just a conductor and it's just this beautiful sound. And I try to get that across to people that there is this other reality that is so beautiful, like, feel the beauty everywhere and you just feel, I don't know, just feel so amazing. Going back to what you were saying, just about it, you didn't use these words, but there was a sense of play of like, oh, we're just going to stay now. We've gone through all the healing stuff, time to play, and one of my favourite things to play with is what crazy thing can I manifest? So I got this download. I want to manifest a million dollar client. It's not really to do with the money, it's to do with the level of consciousness, the level of commitment. There's a lot of reasons why that seems appealing to me. So, as I was thinking, oh my god, that feels so nice, but I don't know how to do it, then the subconscious opens up and it starts to find the ways that you can do it, the shows you, who's doing it, and suddenly all of these people started coming to my environment that were doing it, and it was so specific because the way they were doing it was via in a work, the same in the work that we both do and oh my god, I'm literally getting the answers as how to do this, and it was multiple people. And so I love that thing of when we decide we want something, the subconscious has access to everything, and they'll go oh okay, let me go and find out how to do this for you. And that's how simple manifestation is. The subconscious will do it for you. It's when we get into the chow strategy and all of this and the limited mind takes over. Now it's problematic because we're going to try and figure it out, but if we just go I want this and then allow the universe to just bring in everything you need, that's, I think, really manifesting all this.Speaker 1:
I couldn't agree more, and this conversation is so wild because I just thought of manifestation program and I really it was very much mine. It was a lot of stuff that's come to me. I taught a lot of physics in it and with sound. I love that you're saying so many things that you said I was like, oh, that was a module, that was a module, that was a module. So there's this other piece that's really interesting to me. That kind of goes back to what you said earlier and I think I experienced as well as I was also exposed to spirituality when I was younger that I was just no, that's not for me, or even I've become really interested in chakras and energy centers. But I resisted it for a long time because I was taught it in this yogic way. That was just. It was just very resistant to it. For me it was when I did my hypnotherapy training and I really started to understand the layers of my mind and quiet my mind and then I used to just go and spend hours meditating in nature and I used to have. I was still in the spiritual closet then, even though I was immensely spiritual and I would never know what to say when people would ask me where did you get all this wisdom? And the honest answer was all the best stuff just would come to me when I was connected to nature in this space of peace. So there's kind of two questions in this. I guess is like one, what was that relationship with the spirituality that you perceived and rejected and then coming it to yourself? And then the other is you must notice, because I see it and feel it all the time as well there's a convergence, like there's so many of us that are awakening and receiving and getting this where I didn't learn it from a book, I didn't. I just I may have been inspired and I get you've certainly been expander for me, but it's I really am receive. We're receiving pieces of the same puzzle. It's wild.Speaker 2:
Have you noticed that you'll get the download and then it'll be confirmed by a book or person that seems to come that way. So that's what happens. So I do see it in other people and books and stuff. There's like oh, it just came through me and I'm like now I guess that's a subconscious throwing you. Well, so somewhere else that information is. And what it's making me think of is that I was going to say hold on, it's gone out of my head for a second. And how I work is I don't hold anything in my head, like my head is empty, and then when I'm having conversation, I just allow things to come in to essentially retrieving stuff from the onto field, and so a lot of it gets lost very quickly. If I don't catch it immediately, it's gone and I'm like oh, I know that was going to be good. Whatever I was going to say, it was going to be good. What was the last thing you were saying? It's the last question.Speaker 1:
About the, this convergence of different. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.Speaker 2:
Yeah, so I do a lot in the dream key space, and so what we're seeing here is that, as the heart is opening, we essentially start to access a blueprint which has all of the people within our own fractal, and so within our own fractal it's going to be people who are on the same journey, who are having the same lessons, who are the same state of consciousness, and so, of course, that the more we're opening up into this sort of invisible space, the people are just there. So, like you, us meeting, it's just we were always on the planet together, but it was just that frequency, that point in the fractal where we were a match, that we became invisible to each other. And so then it's no, we're on the same job, we're literally getting the same lessons, everything's exactly the same, and so that's what I see with everybody I meet. It's like twins, we're just like all in the same thing. So it's basically the fractal that we're in and this. The beauty of this, is that in business, as we really start to get into that, all the perfect people just come in, and so when I'm thinking like, oh well, there's million dollar clients, I don't have to go and strategize and figure out how to do it. I know that someone in the fractal that can bring that to me and, wise, I can bring something to them that they need. And so we all start in our own fractal manifesting for each other, and so that's that more. That's how I see it working, a million percent.Speaker 1:
You've been the path of least resistance for so many things for me. When we met, obviously, and then the gene case had been in my awareness for a while but I really had deepened that curiosity and then you just came in and you were like, oh, I'll do a reading with you, and it was this. It was like you sat there and you looked at this weird graph and it was like you told me what my life story was. My life story. It was amazing and I've been so obsessed with the gene keys ever since. It was absolutely wild and it's interesting because I really do look at them as keys and I found that when, if I'm going through something or there is that little bit of storm inside me, like you said, I'll try to find what. I try to start with the ones that are in my chart, but I try to find the key that relates to that thing and usually, if I can read that passage, I don't even know how to describe it. It's like this beam of enlightenment comes in and I'm so easily able to have a deeper understanding and the transcendence not a bypassing transcendence, but an integrating transcendence of the thing.Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's that. These, the gene keys, along with things like the Bible and all of these things a live transmission. Same with Eckhart's pair of now. They're a live mission and they have this frequency in them and so, as we're reading them, we're getting all the codes, and codes are coming through us and we're being activated. More light is coming into our bodies and it's whenever I do the same thing, I'll see in a certain way and I'll try to pinpoint what it is and then find the gene key that we're most related to it, and immediately it lifts my frequency. I can suddenly see where I'm much more in that human form of blaming someone or feeling whatever I'm feeling. Yeah Well, hang on, I can go back into these. It's really so healing all of those words, the way you just said that.Speaker 1:
I felt that in my body. That's how I feel too. It's really that bliss state. It almost, it's this almost immediate re-accessing, because I do feel like you almost have compassion for the human experience that you're having, while also simultaneously expanding right back into that you could say unity, consciousness, perspective.Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I really feel in other people, because there's also within the gene keys that talks about the three source codes and the ones going to be from Buddha, ones going to be from Jesus, ones going to be from Hermes, and so you're going to be along, you're going to be in one of these fractals and you're going to be receiving those specific lessons, and so if you know which fractal you're in, you probably will know by what really resonates with you. Even if all three resonate, there's probably one that you can sense. You're getting those lessons, and so I'm the Christ one, and so what happens is it's literally an archetypal track and it's like a process of lessons that are in a very particular order, and then you can go back into his story where all the answers are. So I got this. This funny thing happens. I think each vessel's come to explore certain things, and mine was really around unconditional love, not realizing I should not pick that one, because you will be tested in what your fear is. And you are going to have to move through that fear. So I was in this relationship and I suddenly clicked and oh no, my worst fear is going to be realized and I'm going to have to move through this lesson. And so that's what happened. And of course it was around betrayal. And so this double betrayal came in and there was just like, oh my God, I cannot believe I'm going through this. But because I was prepared at the moment, he told me I felt such compassion for him. It was such a weird experience. I just I didn't feel it any pain on me, I just felt why he'd done what he had done and I just felt, because I felt that compassion for him and really understood straight away because of our opens and he went into the space of being so vulnerable in a way that he's never been. He told me something like literally never told anybody in his life. And because I held that state of an open heart and really felt deeply for him and what had been going on, he just felt opened. And then we came into this very space of deep trust, even though there's other stuff going on, and so I protected. I never actually got any backlash from what had happened because it was just an understanding of we're all human, we all do things, no one's trying to hurt each other and we all have a chart in. It was probably a lot to do with me and whatever. My part was in too, and so that's what you say with the compassion. When we have that compassion for others, we're then so protected, because that's something what I was told is something you could hold as pain for the rest of your life if you want I just go on, go. Part of that, actually, because this was the Christ consciousness, and so then I started with a synchronicity started happening. I'm not really insoluble, but I just kept coming at me all of the stories and then the Judas kiss came through. I was reading about the Judas kiss and you never know, he, judas, has to identify Jesus in the crowded market place by giving him a kiss and a cheat, and then how he felt. And it was also said that Jesus could have asked him to do that, which I suspect is more possible and rather than just for the soul. So I feel like we are all soul family and the people that might have hurt us the most are probably the closest soul family two of us and they take on that that. I'll do this so that you can move through this exploration of what unconditional love feels like, and so it was very, very interesting to know that the answers are there and it's what everyone has gone through in that whole ancestral everyone on that. In that is, they're going through the same lessons, and so then you can prepare yourself a little bit.Speaker 1:
Yeah, oh, there's so much in there, and I love one of the things that you're talking about too, which is something that I see as a universal law. It's spoken about all the way from neuroscience and mirror neurons to it's like a coaching concept and spirituality, but it's this idea that the more confident or the more intentional energy will influence the other, and I feel like there's such a possibility there for you to go into hurt and guardedness and elicit that response in the other person, but you, having the intentionality to hold that openness and unconditional love, created this space for him to soften and be so vulnerable, if you will, and, of course, vulnerability is such a huge part of connection and it only makes sense that you deepen your relationship and trust in that energy and in that space.Speaker 2:
Yeah, because I received a lot of epiphanies around a relationship and so, of course, that lack of vulnerability that he had been in before was just a mirror of my own lack of vulnerability. And so I see everything as a mirror, and there's a way that I see it that it's an inverse reality and so the other, the person it's. I can't explain it at the moment, but it's just the sense of an inverse reality, inverse mirror. And so the way it's seen is in maybe, if you're looking like it anxious, avoidant attachment styles the narrative is that the anxious one wants closeness and the avoided one wants some space. And it's actually the opposite. The anxious one actually wants space, but they don't have to do it, and the avoided one wants closeness, but they don't know how to do it. And so it becomes like this weird map and it's this inverse reality that they are actually you and they mirror it, mirroring it in reverse. It was really like blowing my mind when I was feeling into the energetics of it, and so then I'm like, oh my God, I can just shift myself. What is it? I need to shift in myself so I'm more the anxious one and can I hold the space? I don't know there's a whole bunch of stuff coming up.Speaker 1:
I see it as being like these mirrors and fractals and feeling it. It's so funny. When we tap into some of these concepts, it's almost like they're transferred, even when we can't say them in words. I can't even tell you how much I find fascinating in that as well. I've been really interested in attachment styles as well, because I think in a therapeutic sense, they were talked about in a way that's really fixed and I feel like in the magic of the work that we've tapped into, I've definitely changed that. I know, definitely for myself. Yeah, so interesting and I would agree. I agree, I'm also the anxious one. I think that you're right is that I actually that was actually one of my biggest things in relationship is I do want the space, but I don't know how. I hadn't known how to have it in the past. So I think that's a fascinating change.Speaker 2:
It's the same with the attachment styles, because it's as you say, it's very fixed and it's very separate. It enhances the state of separation. So when we look at it attachment styles in the opposite way, in a way of wonders, it really shows how that works. And so as soon as you can start to see that they are you and they're just reflecting you in the reverse, then you're like it just is mind blowing, because you really just get to see the mirror and so many times like no, it's you. Because even knowing that, still at the sort of more human 3D level, and like no, it's you, it's definitely not me, I'm fine, You're the one. And it's hard to separate it at that level. So that's, it's very. The attachment theory at the moment is too separate, too separate from consciousness, and there's this other, more evolved way which is about oneness and that they are you and if you could see what they're doing they're doing exactly what you're doing is like really started to break me out.Speaker 1:
It's almost like what I'm seeing as you're saying, that is, it's almost like the field of the relationship is trying to find coherence through this state of imbalance rather than balance right, like imbalance in the anxious and the insecure or whatever. And then I feel like, as we solve that problem within ourselves, if you will, it's we can have the coherence in this state of balance, right. It's almost like I'm unbalanced this way and so in order to create the balance and the relationship energetically, it's like the other side has to be off kilter. But it's, it's a match, it's just a match for this sort of I don't know, I don't. I also can't explain it, but I got sort of got what you're saying.Speaker 2:
At the conflate of frequency. Match like it's. That's why it's there's no separation. That's literally so perfectly match frequency wise. But the other thing you're saying really sparked something within me. Let me just think what it is. I think it's gone out of my head again. But yeah, I just love this whole working with relationship because the relation oh that's what he's going to say is when we just take ourselves out of it. You take yourself out, you take the other person out. There's aura of the relationship. So there's three energies happening in a relationship, all those other persons and the combined aura is mixing and you just going to focus on that bit. Take yourself and the other person out and focus on what's going on in the middle of the space of the relationship.Speaker 1:
I couldn't agree more I can. I think about this all the time and I actually, to make this more humanly digestible, I will often say what if you imagine that the relationship itself was a third person? And then they do all this stuff where we think about it as a person, it's really interesting, but it really is just a lens for understanding the energetics that you're speaking about here. And that actually sort of leads me into something that I wanted to ask you, because I have watched you many times in times you've given talks and in interviews where you dance in this incredible space, but then often will ask a question of can you give a practical example? And I think one of the things that I respect about you and am drawn to you is because I think sometimes people just get lost in a conceptual land where I think for you, there's this amazing understanding and also this connection to practicality and ultimately, one of the things we desire is to influence our physical reality. So can you speak to how you you dance in those worlds?Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I do set my intention as for it to be practical, but I often feel like it water up in the conceptual I think too much in the concepts and not really bringing it down into the practical advice. I see lots of people on Instagram in this sort of spiritual space, giving really like solid advice. Oh my God, I don't do that, and so it's funny how we see things very differently. But I do agree that it needs to be brought into a practical level much in terms of business success and having good relationships. I've got another example, so this is how I'd use it. I usually need to have the person in front of me with a story and then I'm like we can work with this. And so there was this woman and she'd been a student and it was time of the COVID and clubhouse and I said, come on to clubhouse. I'd only been on state there for a week and never went back on. She met her boyfriend there. Then she disappeared off the scene and then she calls me one day and she says I really need to speak to you. I'm just in a really bad situation. I've got this. I met this guy and I moved across states to live with him and he was really taking care of me. She's like in her early twenties and he's really taking care of me and he was fine with me being like a sort of housewife and he would do all the earning of the money that being a provider. Then we went on this trip over the weekend and he didn't want to be with her anymore, and so he said look, you're going to have to leave and she doesn't have any money. I can pay for a hotel for a few days, but you'll have to go back to your parents, and she really didn't want to do that. So she's been looking for these jobs and nothing had been coming up, and so that's the moment she called me. So I'm going to be in this hotel with no money. What am I going to do? And so, first of all, we went through the story and she was going oh, you really want to tell a baby. Blah, blah, blah. And like you know what's happened, you were saying that you didn't want to have a baby yet because you wanted to focus on your career. He felt rejected. You just triggered him. So he rejected you before you would reject him. So when you were saying you don't want a baby, he saw that as a rejection and he said oh my God, she's going to reject me. Let me get rid of her, let me reject her. And that's what he did. So, honestly, he's just feeling rejected. Just soothes him, make sure he knows that you're not rejecting him, that you do on a child. It's not right this second and anyway. So she then got this interview and she's like can I stay with you for the guy? Can I stay with you for the weekend about this interview and I'm going to go home and he's fine. And because she's had this understanding from me that he just felt rejected, she talked to him about that. She does want a baby and she does all of the feelings for him. They got back together that weekend. Then, like a few months later, they got married, then they had a baby, and so that it's those little, that tiny shift because she was adamant to, she felt rejected and she's like no, he didn't do that to me. He doesn't want me. I'm like he does want you, and that's where we get into relationship. This is a huge thing I work with in relationship is that anything that's happening is because we're rejecting ourselves or we feel we're going to be rejected, and that's it Once we can understand that some profound truth, yeah. And anyone's behaving in a way that they seem like they don't want you or they don't be with you or whatever it's not true, then it's self-rejecting and it's probably a mirror. You'll be probably self-projecting yourself as well, but if you can understand that, then you can just get a background track and literally in a heartbeat.Speaker 1:
It's so wild that you're speaking about this too, because I think this is going to. This is like one of the number one questions that I wanted to ask you when I knew you were coming on here, and I think this, your perspective, and this conversation about relationship, I think, is probably going to be part of the answer. But something that I've noticed about you, jess, is you have this extraordinary ability to create, to be wise, to draw people in, to manifest all the things to play and celebrity energy, like you really have got it going on in so many ways. But you also I've just watched you in so many situations just step back and give other people the mic and be willing to celebrate other people and be willing to just listen and give other people their moment and their time, and I know I've certainly felt that from you in the most beautiful way. Do you feel like that's something you've cultivated, or are you even aware of how generous you are in that way?Speaker 2:
Yeah, I guess. So what I've really been working on at the moment is listening, and I'm sort of the opposite thing. I don't listen enough, I talk too much, and so I really was trying to cultivate very deep listening to help somebody feel very listened to, but not from a sort of are we going to sit here and I'm going to really listen to type things. There have been more of a frequency. So what I started to understand is that, again, coming through my experience, relationship is whenever there were problems, it was because I wasn't listening. I was. He was saying exactly what I should have been hearing, as I'd heard it. So say, at the beginning of the relationship he said something really profound to me and at the beginning I was wondering what's the name of the bull? And he just said if you just relax, you'll find you get what you want. And in here. And he said that's all he needed to say. And I didn't hear it. I still kept pestering and badgering what are we? It wasn't ever enough and he was telling me I just couldn't hear. And so I was like, oh, and so when we do hear, this is why the epiphanies come, so the relationship and something dramatic will happen in your life because you haven't been listening, and then you get taken down into the dark night to the soul. You've lost this person, who's done, lost this or that, and then you suddenly listen because it's quiet there. Now you have to listen and that's where the epiphany comes. And so what I've been trying to cultivate because I had this link as well listening is where the receiving is, because I'm obsessed with understanding the energetics of receiving, because it's actually not that much out there about this very mechanics of receiving. And so what is this receiving thing? And part of it is around being able to listen. Listen again, not just listen to what a person is saying, but it's like this deep listening and that's where the receiving is. That's what I'm trying to work on. I had to listen more because there's also magnetism. When someone can really listen, they become very magnetic and then people just need to be in your energy, and so for me, I'm really about the beauty and aura and magnetism. I'm always wanting a lot more of it and trying to cultivate that for myself and show others. I can love that aspect of being human. It's like how magnetic can we get?Speaker 1:
I love that and it's funny that I love that you went to the energetics, because as soon as you started talking about listening, I was thinking, oh, and this is part of the manifestation as well, because there is this energetic listening, even when you speak about the synchronicities, to me, in a way that's, there's a kind of listening to the universe there. So I think it's so felt and I'm interested too, like when you say something, go ahead, you go ahead. Did you have something?Speaker 2:
just and I was going to ask exactly that. It's not like a listening to ears, it's like a listening with your senses and when you can listen, you're going to feel all of the synchronicity and see it, hear it, and then you're going to. So there's this great story that Gene Key is about the rainmaker, and this explains like manifestation absolutely perfect, because we often put it as oh, the manifestation's out there, but I try and figure out how to bring it to me. And so there's this rainmaker in this village and you guys around the village is basically and makes it rain. And everyone said, oh my God, how do you do it? None of the other guys can do it properly and you always make it happen. And he just has this very subtle attunement to the environment and so he's like, how's it going to rain there? And then he just goes and goes to that village, puts all his stuff up, does a dance, but he already knows it's going to rain there. He's not making it rain. It's like the Bushman in Africa. They have very attuned to where the water is. And that is exactly what happens in manifestation. Everything is right, there's nothing separate from us because there's just this. The reality is just this. So everything has to be in this space and it's just basically invisible. So the more we can become into that subtle awareness and be attuned, suddenly it becomes visible. And that's where you can get the million dollar client or this or that. It's suddenly just right. It's always in front of you, right there. Everything we want is literally in that energy field and all we have to do is attune and it becomes visible. So I always say that we make what I help people with and is helping them make something invisible be visible, and there's no getting, there's nothing. No, I know what you mean.Speaker 1:
I just wrote that down attunement. That's going to be one of the takeaways. There's something about the way you said that just landed and I know that we could speak forever and ever. But one final thing that I'm interested in that you just touched on here is when you say working on listening, I get the sense that it's not just been a mind practical way, and I'm really interested in this. Would you say that, because I know I'll share it? So for me, the way I say it is like coding in an energy, and so recently it's been maturity and someone was asking and I think, like you, sometimes there's things that I do intuitively that I don't even think about how I do them until someone asks me how to explain. I said it in a class. I said, well, I'm coding in maturity right now and she said, well, how do you code? Like that's just top and think about it. I don't know, I just do it. But it's really this pulling in of the energy and I feel like it's very different than when, in my masculine, human mind, I used to work on a quality. But it's so felt and I just was on a call I think it was last night and someone reflected to me. There's this maturity developing in you and it's profound and I just thought that that's being felt. I'm currently that's currently my energetic focus of bringing that in, and I get a sense that it's similar when you speak about listening. Is that accurate?Speaker 2:
Yeah, and it's widely talking. For some reason the word individuation was coming up, but it's really about moving through that individuation process where we're coming into maturity. But in terms of just a practical thing, I meditate like a law and I feel like the listening is really around going into more silence. How much silence can I be and how comfortable can I be in the silence and to really listen to what the environment is telling me? So anything that we're wanting to manifest, it's there, but we just we're not listening, and so that that's the other part of it is the manifestation is right there, no matter how big it is, no matter how crazy. If we can listen, we will know how to get it. So it might be we listen and we just think, oh, I just want. A few years ago I was at the stage of I want 100K times again just to test, just to see what, where my meditation skills are, especially as I come from a thing of my fads thing into manifestations like $25. And I felt so guilty. I was like I'll take this money from them, and so I had to deal with a lot of money stuff. So I was using that as practice and because I didn't been doing a lot of meditating and I was very tuned, like I think that day before I'd done five hours of meditating, but I was extreme, very attuned and I just saw someone is like, oh, I just, and the money that's, that's the. It wasn't nothing to do with the client or anything, but I haven't seen her and let me speak to her. We got on a call and it was really just to say hello and then it just transpired with a conversation. She was the client and then I had to go through that. So the first time I was saying it because she was like an amazing manifestor, she had this sort of $60 million company and she just knew how to manifest. I'm like, am I going to teach her? And so I just said it and she, yeah, we all need support, I'd love to, and it's so simple. That was really attunement into listening and so it's not like a direct listening. It's just you're going to be moved to call this person or do this thing and it's right there and you don't have to do, there's no effort. And that's when we know we're manifesting like at a really high level, and then it just becomes so much fun. So the money always. You always forget about the money, but what stays as a synchronicity, because it's in that synchronicity feel connected to the universe. You're like, oh my God, I'm part of the universe, I don't feel so alone, and that's always been the magic of manifestation for me, as the synchronicity and how things just miraculously appear.Speaker 1:
Oh, my goodness, the conversation. I feel like you just brought it full circle there. So, so beautiful.Speaker 2:
I love this conversation. It's so nice to speak to you because, again, in that similar fractal, same fractal, we're in that space where we can just really speak at the same. You know level of understanding, as you say, sometimes you don't even need words. So, yeah, get it. I know what you're trying to say.Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful and I know it's been. It's yeah, thank you for being part of my fractal. I don't even know it's so beautiful Fractal buddies.Speaker 2:
Yeah, you're fractal.Speaker 1:
Yeah, so good, so good. It's been such a pleasure and an honor to speak to you today. Thank you for sharing all of your amazing wisdom and your time with me and with us. Is there any? I'll ask you in a moment where people can find you, but is there any final thoughts that you want to share with us?Speaker 2:
Things just like really live a manifesting lifestyle, commit to every day because it's literally so much fun. It's just. It's just like a playground, like a technical playground. How are we going to have this and that? And we didn't even touch on any sort of manifestations coming through, because they're pretty crazy and wild. And I think people get so inspired when you say, oh, this is manifesting, that's manifesting. Yeah, my final thoughts are really around just live the manifesting lifestyle, just have a lot of fun.Speaker 1:
Basically, Amazing, amazing. And where can people find you?Speaker 2:
I'm sort of social media, but it's not working for me. It's not long form enough. Like, clearly, I love to talk and I love to write and to be on video and stuff. And so I found Substack and this newsletter. I'm just obsessed. I'm like, oh my God, I just love it. Here I can really just create something that is really helpful for people. So it's called spiritualizedsubstackcom and I'm doing lots of writing there and that's probably the best place to find me or go in with on Instagram.Speaker 1:
Which is amazing. I'm so excited that you did that, because your emails have always been amazing. My friend Natalie and I will often talk about that. You're like did you read Jess's email? Yeah, they're the only emails we read, but they're actually good. It's the only. I wouldn't even call them marketing emails anymore, but back when they were, it was like the only marketing email that you ever wanted to read. But now they really evolved and that is the content. So, yeah, I couldn't recommend it more. So thank you so much for sharing, sharing with me today and sending you lots of love.